Paul Thurrott and ZDNet Independently Slam Microsofts Newest Surface, Surfacegate Has Begun



  • Top Microsoft blogger and key IT news outlet ZDNet are rather unhappy with Microsoft and how they are handling issues with their newest tablets, the Surface Book and the Surface Pro 4, according to iTWire.

    ...Thurrott explains some of the problems: “Before getting to the response, let’s step through some of the problems. Ongoing Intel display driver crashes, which in many cases Blue Screens/restarts the device, even after an issued fix. (And that fix caused boot problems on Surface Book where the power button stops working.)

    “Rampant power management issues that cause “hot bag” issues and drains the battery because the device never actually goes to sleep. Surface Detach issues on the Surface Book, where the screen can’t/won’t detach.

    “USB bus issues (which may or may not be tied to Surface Detach; it’s hard to tell because everything is interconnected on these SoC-based PC designs). On and on it goes.

    “Here’s what Microsoft has done so far.

    “Nothing.”



  • R3X0i.jpg



  • Great, now I'm gonna have to go watch last weeks Windows Weekly, see what he's got to say about it.


  • Banned

    This post is deleted!


  • @aaron said:

    Surfacegate? Really?

    With Paul Thurrott, everything is a *gate.



  • This sounds overly dramatic.

    I did listen to that episode, Paul is doing a really good job of holding his tongue, at least on the show. I don't follow his blog.

    Don't get me wrong, He calls a spade a spade, he's not an apologist like Leo is with Lenovo, et all when the have massive security problems. Leo still considers Lenovo a good brand (at least as of the last time he talked about them with Steve Gibson on Security Now).



  • @Dashrender said:

    Leo still considers Lenovo a good brand

    Which makes me consider Leo below an intern level of decision maker ability. I'd literally fire someone who was recommending Lenovo today. Leo is, by that standard, not fit to work helpdesk. Even remotely apologizing for Lenovo long before this point is completely inexcusable. To do so as an IT decision maker hired to protect businesses from exactly this kind of thing is reckless and careless at best, outright attempting to hurt the business at worst. It's one thing if people don't know about it, but to know about the things they have done and to stand by them, one can only assume he's mental incapable of being in a position of recommendations or he is paid off and has zero ethics. In either case, he should be avoided completely. He's no friend of IT Pros or businesses or anyone but Lenovo, at that point. If that's really his position, I hope someone finds a means of prosecuting him.



  • How long ago was that? Before the network shim or after? After, zero excuses and I think any apologizes are unthinkable. Before, sure, but I think shows poor insight. Lenovo had a decade of being pretty bad before the poo hit the fan. Then it is one thing after another. They had zero track record of being good, so supporting them based on a middling at best record then followed by many of the worst reports in the industry.... what could be his basis for telling people to buy them? Seems awfully fishy.



  • I've always wondered... why do IT people listen to Leo when, AFAIK, he has no experience in IT. He was a non-tech college student who went into radio broadcasting immediately (which was always his plan as I understand it) and just found computers interesting. Nothing wrong with that, but his career is radio broadcasting. Sure, since 1991 he does a lot of broadcasting about computers, but my understanding is that he's a bench hobbyist and has no experience at all of IT, just computers. Exactly the kind of people we warn IT about, the people who think computers are cool but lack the context of them in a business. It's like having your uncle talk computers, he's interested in them but doesn't know the scope of the industry and has no real understanding of how they apply to business.

    That's not to say that Leo can't have thought long and hard about that. I'm sure he's tried. But as we all know, we would never hire someone or listen to someone to give business advice who has never run IT in a business. The needs of a business, dealing with users, security, protecting the business... these are things that, by and large, require experience. Leo, from what I can tell, has none. None at all, from his profile. Doesn't mean he just doesn't list it anyway, but he's been busy with a successful career talking hobby tech and seems like there has been no time for IT.

    Nothing wrong with that, but it makes for generally the opposite advice that IT needs. IT needs, dramatically more than technical know how, an understanding of the business and how technology interacts with it.

    Listing to Twit, back when I tried it once or twice and from your description, sounds more like listening to grown up kids who still like to build video game rigs. Nothing wrong with that... but it isn't IT.



  • Leo does demonstrate what a large market there is in hobby and home tech, though.



  • @scottalanmiller Mostly for entertainment. The only serious show on his network that I pay attention to is Security Now. TWiET doesn't really hit it's target audience, but is normally entertaining at least. The other shows don't even make a pretense of having anything to do with the enterprise, or corporate IT.

    TL:DNR: Would you rather listen to news about tech, or the mainstream media?



  • @travisdh1 said:

    TL:DNR: Would you rather listen to news about tech, or the mainstream media?

    Why either?



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @travisdh1 said:

    TL:DNR: Would you rather listen to news about tech, or the mainstream media?

    Why either?

    Because I can't concentrate as well without some noise in the background. Tinnitus sucks.



  • I recommend some shows like A Prairie Home Companion or Rick Steves' Europe.



  • @travisdh1 is right - Leo isn't peddling to IT Pros, He's peddling to the home user, occasionally the Prosumer, but never to the IT Pro.

    Again as @travisdh1 mentioned, Security Now! is their only show that seems to really delve into business dealings, but even that is only surface deep, and rarely with a recommendation toward a technology.

    Steve Gibson, the host of Security Now! also hasn't been in corporate IT in a very long time if ever. He considered among the Security Experts, but probably not to the level of many that we hear about like Brian Krebs.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    How long ago was that? Before the network shim or after? After, zero excuses and I think any apologizes are unthinkable. Before, sure, but I think shows poor insight. Lenovo had a decade of being pretty bad before the poo hit the fan. Then it is one thing after another. They had zero track record of being good, so supporting them based on a middling at best record then followed by many of the worst reports in the industry.... what could be his basis for telling people to buy them? Seems awfully fishy.

    Saidly it was after the shim.

    I don't recall what episode it was, but Leo asked Steve Gibson point blank - So does this mean we should stop recommending Lenovo? Steve didn't really take a stance and Leo more or less ran over him and felt that Lenovo was is probably an OK purchase.

    As for recommendations - I can't recall Leo ever actually recommending a Lenovo on the two shows I listen to (Windows Weekly and Security Now!), instead Leo is often recommending Dell and occasionally the Surface 3 or Surface Pro 3 depending on need.

    So I don't think Leo is actively pushing Lenovo's, but at the time, he probably won't poopoo it either.



  • @Dashrender said:

    @travisdh1 is right - Leo isn't peddling to IT Pros, He's peddling to the home user, occasionally the Prosumer, but never to the IT Pro.

    Makes more sense. He always seemed like a "bench" guy, like Geek Squad Radio.



  • @Dashrender said:

    So I don't think Leo is actively pushing Lenovo's, but at the time, he probably won't poopoo it either.

    So not even at the Geek Squad level, sadly.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @Dashrender said:

    So I don't think Leo is actively pushing Lenovo's, but at the time, he probably won't poopoo it either.

    So not even at the Geek Squad level, sadly.

    You're kidding right? Geek Squad sells Lenovo - so of course they are pushing it... that I would make Leo better in my mind, but the question is.. is the better really even worth mentioning?



  • Leo is essentially a hobbyist, and Paul is on the edge of hobbyist/prosumer/SMB. Mary Jo on the other hand has some excellent insights into what is going on inside MS outside of their desktop/laptop/services arena.



  • @Dashrender said:

    You're kidding right? Geek Squad sells Lenovo - so of course they are pushing it... that I would make Leo better in my mind, but the question is.. is the better really even worth mentioning?

    LOL. Well at least with GS I can see that they are making money from selling Lenovo so their advice there was always moot. Anyone getting advice from a sales person is a fool unto themselves 😉 That would be exactly like being shocked that the Chevy dealer recommended a Chevy - at that point, it's the customer at fault for having unreasonable expectations.

    But if Lenovo does not sponsor Leo and or it does so secretly (unlikely, just not ruling it out) then we trust him to attempt to give advice honestly because that is his job - he makes his money by people thinking what he says is valuable. So unlike a sales person where we know their motivation, it sounds like he's just not qualified to talk to grandparents about computers.



  • I like FLOSS weekly... but I rarely listen to it, instead I look at the software being shown and take a look myself.



  • Agreed, and to that end I've never heard him recommend Lenovo - only Dell and Surface devices.

    As a radio person who cares about ratings, he doesn't take a dump on Lenovo so customers who call into his radio show doesn't feel bad about their purchases.

    I think for the most part he's walking a fine line.



  • @Dashrender said:

    I think for the most part he's walking a fine line.

    Yes, a fine line where he knows he makes money by putting people at risk. 😉



  • My wife works for a very large company (largest of its type in the US) They've standardized on Lenovo. Her father works for a different company (again the largest of its type in the US)... they are Dell now but apparently the next cycle there are plans to implement Lenovo laptops and workstations. Just seems crazy to me from the outside looking in.



  • @coliver said:

    My wife works for a very large company (largest of its type in the US) They've standardized on Lenovo. Her father works for a different company (again the largest of its type in the US)... they are Dell now but apparently the next cycle there are plans to implement Lenovo laptops and workstations. Just seems crazy to me from the outside looking in.

    They are looking to MOVE to Lenovo? WHY? Clearly that CTO doesn't care about security (at best he hasn't heard about the issues they've had - at worst he doesn't care and only cares about what he thinks will save the company a few bucks).



  • @coliver said:

    Just seems crazy to me from the outside looking in.

    I'm sure it seems crazy from the inside too.

    Lenovo is smart, though, they know that the American small business just is so clueless that they can do anything they want and the average American isn't going to catch on. I guarantee they are just laughing and laughing about it. It must blow their minds that they get caught over and over and yet... no one cares.



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @coliver said:

    Just seems crazy to me from the outside looking in.

    I'm sure it seems crazy from the inside too.

    Lenovo is smart, though, they know that the American small business just is so clueless that they can do anything they want and the average American isn't going to catch on. I guarantee they are just laughing and laughing about it. It must blow their minds that they get caught over and over and yet... no one cares.

    It's just odd that these aren't small companies. These are multi-national entities with operations all over the world. Although that doesn't mean they are any more informed then the average SMB.



  • @coliver said:

    It's just odd that these aren't small companies. These are multi-national entities with operations all over the world. Although that doesn't mean they are any more informed then the average SMB.

    I've worked for some pretty small companies like that. Are they corporations with boards and trained management, or just one guy running everything based on emotion?



  • @scottalanmiller said:

    @coliver said:

    It's just odd that these aren't small companies. These are multi-national entities with operations all over the world. Although that doesn't mean they are any more informed then the average SMB.

    I've worked for some pretty small companies like that. Are they corporations with boards and trained management, or just one guy running everything based on emotion?

    That I don't know. I believe that they are corporations with an actual management structure but I haven't seen that side of it.